Another weakness, one that Batman regularly exploits when Superman is mind controlled: Superman does not kill. No matter how powerful the mind control is. Batman doesn't kill either, but he's willing to stoop lower.
So, the Kryptonite weakness is something about it's composition based on matter from krypton that's become radioactive and red sun energy is because it saps the strength he gets from yellow sun energy. What's the story about his weakness to magic?
well magic sides sort of my mainstay, zatanna, doctor fate, captain marvel family, black marvel family (sounds racist but isnt), zauriel, alan scott, endless, constantine, swamp thing, Spectre, Hawk and Dove, Metamorpho Etirigan, Vandal Savage, main varients of hawkman and woman, Hitler and his Spear of Destiny (they're just the main ones and you probably know them (with marvel magic is often not all that obvious). Part of the reason superman is weak to magic is because the magic heroes are often practically gods in DC (some just are gods). The other reason was so that they didnt have to explain why superman didnt head off to germany and win the war by himself
I thought Metamorpho's powers were rooted in science. Last time I checked, Alan Scott was the first Green Lantern so why is he on the list of magic users? I don't remember ever hearing anything about Vandal using magic and some of the people you mentioned I've never even heard of. You forgot Traci 13 and pretty much all the magic users we've seen in YJ asside from Doctor Fate and Zatanna. Also, I remember something about Madame Xanadu and Inza being magic users in the comics that one time when I looked up Doctor Fate.
Metamorpho got his powers from the Orb of Ra, it was fashioned from a radiated meteor but channelled powers of an egyptian priest who was the first metamorpho, Ahk-Ton. Ra the Sun God of the egyptian pantheon was then the empowerring facotr in all metamorphs, including Rex Mason. Alan Scott used the Starheart instead of the Green Lantern power rings. Starheart was magic, empowerred by the Green. Vandal was a magic being by the Church of Crime's intro. He was the god that the Crime Bible worships as Cain. Eventually they used the dark rituals he founded to empower Savage to god-like power. Empowerment is enough to make anything you do class as magic when superman is concerned. And i didnt forget her so much as not consider her a main Player in DC's magical community.
Supermans weakness : Kryptonite, drowning.....
Batmans: Polio, AIDS, Fast trucks, Cancer, heart attacks, bullets, arrows, the joker, Poisson, lethal injections, Karma, venomous spiders, most things that live in Australia, drowning, being set on fire, bat to the head, stab wound, SARS, anthrax, choked to death...ect, ect.
POINT IS Humas, vs, a man with super speed. Being fast than light/sound/bullet, = no one can out manoeuvre you! (except a FLASH mod!)
Lorisa, some of the things you named for Batman were pointless and shouldn't have been included. Anyway, for Superman there's Kryptonite, red sun radiation, magic, mind control, people with equal/superior strength as well as actual fighting skills, asphyxiation (unless it's a universe where kryptonians inexplicably don't need to breathe) and a bunch other methods of exploiting his flaws. Given all his powers, he STILL can't seem to beat Lex Luthor. On the other hand, there's Batman, who through intense effort and training, is quite resilient and knows how to get around that pesky being human issue. He regularily fights supervillains and just about every type of insanity out there. If Batman had superpowers, all the other heroes would become redundant. Sure Superman has superpowers but that doesn't mean he's invincible and that there's no way to beat him, especially in the comic book universe of all places. Why don't you compare their non physical traits, see who wins THOSE comparisons? Hint: it's Batman.
your on a website full of batman fans Lori, you dont really have much hope of winning this discussion. Besides if there's anyone in dc who can suvive Australia it's Batman, superman'd get done in my a magical dropbear, magical snake river monster, the yowies, plenty of magic her to beat superman.
You guys do know that this conversation is pointless, do you? I mean, first of all, it's off topic from what she was originally stating in the "Depths" discussion, and second, a lot of your points are based off of what you've read in the comics, which, as you should know, does not necessarily apply to Earth-16. Besides, even in the comics, the victor varies depending on circumstances and it's bound to vary even more on Earth-16.
Cari, I've never read a comic. I go by tv shows and what I know about the comics. Lori's the one who started this thread with the whole Batman vs Superman debate and frankly, it brings variety to the discussions I'm part of at the moment, even though they're pretty much all debates of some sort. Things don't have to be all YJ all the time, especially during a hiatus when everyone is out of new YJ related topics. None of us ever said this was about the YJ versions of the characters and we ARE debating multiple circumstances and methods of comparison.
Whatever guys! to me your comparing a mouse to a lion. Hes human, just b/c it shows him doing crap in the comics/shows/movies, does NOT mean a real human can do it. Watch the Olymics next week (s?) that what REAL awesome (humans) looks like.
ANYWAYS! has anyone see the new Spiderman?!
Loves it! Go see!!!!!!
Lori, listen to yourself. "Hes human, just b/c it shows him doing crap in the comics/shows/movies, does NOT mean a real human can do it." Last time I checked, humans don't have superpowers and none of the aliens portrayed in comics exist, seeing as not only do we have yet to discover life from somewhere other than earth but there's no way extraterrestrials would look anywhere near human, let alone have superpowers. That argument is completely redundant when talking about comics. As for your other 2 comments/questions, I was supposed to watch the spiderman movie the other day but didn't get a chance to so no spoilers and no, I have no site to direct you to.
took the words out of my mouth, except i was also going to say that the mouse kindof beat the lion so... also if batman is a mouse he's this kind. I havent either, i didnt realise it came out already tho. must get on to that.
oh and i think Lori was meaning that you already directed her to a site where everyone was agreeing that superman would win.aka youtube.
Where's the fun in a site where everyone has the exact same opinion as you? I'm a very talkative person that has a way with words. what better place for me than somewhere that has me participating in like 5 different heated debates at the same time? Oh and I think this would be a more appropriate animal for the animal comparison earlier.
Guys in comics there are 'rules' either you are human, or your not! SM's NOT! BM is!
So the rules of human limitations would apply to him. I could kill bats. It's called a bullet to the head. b/c he's not invulnerable. B/c he's human. He could slip on ice and die....W/E guys, I'm done w this conversation. It's like trying to tell twilighters that real vampires don't sparkle....
Also Regulus22, I don't think that was a mouse, but a groundhog.
Lori, you yourself are being unreasonable. You don't give Batman enough credit. Despite being human, he gets around some of the limitations through effort, training and equipment. Superman isn't an allpowerful god that can crush all humans. Heck, he can't even keep Lex in jail. Watch your mouth comparing us to Twilight fans. People can dodge bullets and who the heck dies from slipping on icecream? You're just going out of your way to bring down Batman while speaking to Batman fans. What did you expect the conversation was going to turn into? A Superman love fest? Comparing Batman and Superman isn't meant to be on sheer physical traits and who would win in some random fight. There's also stuff like who's a better person, is smarter, has more skill, is the superior combattant (technique, not strength), which one is more interesting and so on. But all you want to talk about is how Superman has this power, that power, Batman's human and therefore can't win. You have to admit that's a rather shallow argument. Everyone knows the "rules" of comic books are extremely variable and allow for humans beating aliens so that part of your argument is invalid. Regulus' picture may not be a mouse but it's still a rodent, which pertains to the comparison you made. Lastly, no you cannot take on Batman, next time say Supergirl instead of refering to yourself as your profile pic, which is subject to change.
First of all, she said "slip on ice", not "slip on ice cream". Second, debate all you want but you cannot argue with the fact that Superman is more powerful than Batman. And third, she said that she was done with the conversation and I don't blame her 'cause to me, it looks really stupid. So unless you want to be blocked like Matthew Nasmith was, I suggest that you let this conversation be settled right here.
Ok, I think I see the problem here. I'm using realistic human logic, on a 'real' human, but in a fantasy world, where it apparently doesn't apply. You don't think Olympic athletes don't ALL want to win to gold? Just b/c you train your ass off 4 something, does not mean you'll get it. I ran a race 2 weeks ago, and only came in 5th, out out..less than 1,000. I very much understand human limitations, I'm 22, and in my prime! I don't underestimate Bats. I like him, he is the brains of their troops. Private schools, private training, the whole 9 yards. CK did public schools, and did really well in Science & welding (lol) But I was never comparing any of that, only brut force. In a fight to the death, who would logically win.
But no one will ever REALLY know, b/c its whatever the writers decide for an issue...plus they aren't real.
Cari: Matthew was spewing constant hate about Tim over the apparent absence of Jason in the YJ series. This conversation is nothing like that and far more civilized. If you think it looks so stupid then why are you here? I've been trying to get the debate to touch on other aspects than physical strength but apparently I'm the only one who cares about that. You shouldn't be talking about this thread looking stupid since as I recall, many people thought you constant complaining about the timeskip was getting dumber by the day. Also, need I point out that she started this discussion?
Lori: When was this ever about what real humans can do? Comic books weren't meant to be realistic and it's unfair to bind humans to real world logic while letting the stuff that only exists in comic books such as aliens be free to do whatever because there's no real world equivalent. Why do you stubornly adhere to only looking at the physical aspects when we could explore other angles as well? I just wanted to make you realise that there are ways for humans to beat Superman, despite his ridiculously variable ammount of power, which differs ammong the versions and that's another thing you need to keep in mind.
1. I never intended to start a debate with my rants about the time-skip. I just wanted to express my opinions and the reason I did so more than once was to give updates on whether or not I've changed my mind about it.
2. Lorisa only made this thread in order to be extra sure that you saw that picture. She did not intend to get into this debate from the beginning. She was just mentioning that point in a rant about the responses in the "Ask Greg" blog and you guys got it on this topic when you responded to it.
3. The fact that you were trying to convince Lorisa that there are many ways to defeat Superman makes this conversation look even more stupid because it shows that you two were arguing about two entirely different things! She was talking about who would be the victor in a fair fight, with merely brute force, and you were putting in all those factors as to how Batman would tactically have an advantage over Superman.
4. What would make this conversation similar to one with Matthew Nasmith is that he just continued with it no matter what people said to him and it eventually seemed like he just wanted to debate with people for the heck of it. Unless this conversation ends at some point, it's gonna seem like just like that.
1. That's not what it looked like to other pewople.
2. She didn't need to make extra sure, 1 time is enough and as I was part of a discussion on that blog, I was going to see it no matter what. She should've been perfectly aware that bringing up that subject on top of saying a certain outcome was plainly obvious was guaranteed to start this discussion and now she has to deal with the resulting discussion.
3. As I've said, it's pointless to adhere to only one aspect. Sure, Superman has superstrength and all that but he is not invincible and there are ways for humans to beat him. It's not all about superpowers, nor is it always about fighting.
4. I've been on WAY longer threads than this. Conversations can go on for quite some time. That doesn't mean they fall into the same category as the Matt rants. Also, it seems I've presented more varied answers than Lori.
2. well not necessarily but since you get quicker notifications to your wall it was fairly obvious that it'd just continue on to here
3. By that definition then having superman under yellow sun in an unfair advantage, in real world combat a fight is considerred unfair by weight classes because larger figures would have greater power, may not always be the case but additional power makes it un unfair fight. Allowing batman to use all of his tactical ways to defeat superman is allowing him to use his superpower, it may be getting an advantage from his belt but superman gets the same advantage from the sun. which would be considerred outside assistance. Take superman out of the yellow sun, take away all of batman's toys, friends, all knowledge, then it's fair fight with no clear victor, just a couple grown men with no fighting talent brawling.
4. We're all using proper (comic or real world) logic and are not directly insulting or omitting the others opinions, we just arent quite on the same page and are trying to correct that.
Regulus has a great point if this would be a fight some how find a way to make it fair for superman take the sun away and batman take his "toys" away even though then batman would most likely win only because he has the skills and training to win enough said