I think we should consider breaking up history sections (at least for the main characters) into separate pages, like, well, most wikis do. Right now, pages like Aqualad, Nightwing, etc are huge, and actually take a while to save each time, not to mention how it takes forever to scroll down. They're basically endless walls of text. We could write a super abridged recap for each month and provide a link to "Aqualad in July 2010" or the like, which would contain the detailed summaries we can see now. ― Thailog 16:57, July 27, 2012 (UTC)

Even reverting things takes ages. I'm okay with splitting off, but what? Everything in one page, or different pages for different years? And where do we draw the line? --Tupka²¹⁷ 17:12, July 27, 2012 (UTC)

I'd say one page per "Month Year" (July 2010, August 2010, etc.). ― Thailog 17:16, July 27, 2012 (UTC)

And what of Early life and 2011-2015? --Tupka²¹⁷ 17:22, July 27, 2012 (UTC)

That could stay. Only long walls of text benefit from being separate, IMO. ― Thailog 17:28, July 27, 2012 (UTC)

Unless...? --Tupka²¹⁷ 17:32, July 27, 2012 (UTC)

Page like those don't need it. I'm really just referring to the main cast (the Team, mostly). In other words, pages with well expanded by month synopses. ― Thailog 17:36, July 27, 2012 (UTC)

How about adding a default "hide" button to the month/year headings...kind of like the one that is on the character infoboxes. --theJLUninja 07:43, July 28, 2012 (UTC)

Think that's a good idea in theory but hide template wouldnt actually help the problem since in source mode there would still just be a massive wall of text, now with extra code... my only sugggestion is keep it as the parent page, similar to how quotes, images and appearances typically work on other wikias.Regulus₂₂ 08:17, July 28, 2012 (UTC)

People don't necessarily have to edit the whole article. They could just click the edit button that is next to every month/year. --theJLUninja 19:13, July 28, 2012 (UTC)

That's not the only problem with long articles, or the only argument I raised. Please read the entire discussion carefully. ― Thailog 19:25, July 28, 2012 (UTC)

I think the "hide" feature and clicking on the section edit link instead of the article edit link generally solves all the problems. --theJLUninja 19:47, July 28, 2012 (UTC)

Neither do. ― Thailog 19:50, July 28, 2012 (UTC)

I don't get it. --theJLUninja Talk to me 20:42, July 28, 2012 (UTC)

"Hiding" the content won't ease the the page's loading time, as the content will still be there, and editing only on individual sections takes away editing flexibility, not to mention that it's impractical. We can't instruct people not to edit the entire page but only on each month section. As I said, neither solve any of the raised problems. ― Thailog 20:57, July 28, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, the hide function doesn't solve the fact that the page's load time is longer than it should be. The content in the hidden area still has to be loaded. But back to the discussion, I've really been dreading this, because although it's one that was inevitable, it's one which solution I really despise. It's one of the things that I actually hate about the articles on Avatar Wiki, in that the history sections are on separate pages, but I don't think there's any way around it. So I think I'll just have to grin and bear it. Begrudgingly, I'm for it. I like long articles, but articles like the ones at Wookiepeedia are too long. Also, as a side note, I think this could benefit from having a notice at the top of the affected pages temporarily, saying that the history has been split, and then link it to a blog which explains it in more detail. An addition to the infobox with links should be made too. Rassilon of Old ^{(Wall - Contribs)} 01:04, July 29, 2012 (UTC)

That sounds fine by me. I actually split the history sections of the main characters of Scooby-Doo on Scoobypedia, but only because there's 40+ years worth of material to cover. If I may I'd like to suggest using the four seasons again although I'm sure that wouldn't work out. Another suggestion for the main characters is if they get separate history pages then it could be broken up into character arc sub sections below each year. -- Anythingspossibleforapossible (talk) 02:27, July 29, 2012 (UTC)

Not sure seasons would work, seeing as the series is set in locations around the world, meaning the seasons differ. Rassilon of Old ^{(Wall - Contribs)} 03:34, July 29, 2012 (UTC)

When you think about it, it's only six moths a Season. So even disregarding the hemispheric differences, seasons would only split the large amount of text to two extra long pages each season. I'd say months would be best since it's then 1/6th roughly speaking. Regulus₂₂ 07:34, July 29, 2012 (UTC)

How about moving them to separate pages, and then linking them back to the main article, like a template. --theJLUninja Talk to me 08:40, July 29, 2012 (UTC)

But then that only solves the issue of it being hard to edit. The content in the template won't appear by magic, it still has to be loaded. Rassilon of Old ^{(Wall - Contribs)} 08:55, July 29, 2012 (UTC)

I don't get what you mean by the "loaded" part. As far as I see it, it just like loading an infobox. It's fast and easy. --theJLUninja Talk to me 17:06, July 29, 2012 (UTC)

I really don't know how else to explain it. Can we move on? ― Thailog 20:31, July 30, 2012 (UTC)

Yup. So have we agreed that content will be moved in groups of months? I.e., "History of Robin in September 2010"? Rassilon of Old ^{(Wall - Contribs)} 11:02, July 31, 2012 (UTC)

Is there a (preferably easy) way to have the domain as something like Robin/history/September_2010? be easier navigation and pagename wise. Regulus₂₂ 11:26, July 31, 2012 (UTC)

There doesn't need to be a page on each month for each year, just the on history page. -- Anythingspossibleforapossible (talk) 02:08, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

A single history page would still have the same problem in about 2 episodes/issues.content's just too much.Regulus₂₂ 02:12, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

Having a page for each month for each year is too excessive. I don't understand how it would be "just too much"? If there was a policy on how long each episode and comic entry was then there wouldn't be as much of a problem. -- Anythingspossibleforapossible (talk) 06:18, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

That would only delay the problem. Eventually, the content would become huge again, and we'd be back where we are now. Rassilon of Old ^{(Wall - Contribs)} 06:39, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

I think you're turning this into something bigger than it needs to be... -- Anythingspossibleforapossible (talk) 10:42, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

And what is that? ― Thailog 12:01, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

Don't take this the wrong way, but must you be so difficult? I'm sure you could say the same thing, but what I meant was is that we can't have one history page for each team member because that too would get too long, that's what I think is being made into something bigger than it is. If each page is going to get too long then why even separate them in the first place? The powers and abilities section is long, but I don't see anyone asking if that should be separated and the same goes for the relationship sections as there's a Miss Martian and Superboy page, but then they each still have a portion of that on their own page which seems redundant. I think maybe there could be a page on each year, but I suspect that that too would somehow be too long. -- Anythingspossibleforapossible (talk) 12:32, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

If it was a genuine question then I apologize for any offence you may take, but I thought I was quite clear what I was referring to. -- Anythingspossibleforapossible (talk) 12:58, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

The other sections are nowhere near as long as the history section, which is guaranteed to continue to expand as we get more episodes and comics, while the other sections may have some additions, it's not on the same scale. Yes a page of each year for their history would become too long aswell which is why we were all in agreeance that a monthly basis would be manageable. You understand that the problem is that the amount of content on the character pages is the main problem right? by chunking that into smaller pages (months because other options are not feasable) there would be a semi-definitive size of each history section page which would reduce the time it takes to load the character pages and generally make editting them easier. Anyway since the 3 active admins are in agreeance on how to do this, the way i see it the go ahead is pretty much to there for this to happen.

So Thailog, any idea as to whether what i suggested with domain going like ...wiki/(Character)/History/Month Year. is possible? Regulus₂₂ 13:46, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

Why am I being difficult? I think I explained why these pages are too long, and what issues that entails. You say "Miss Martian and Superboy" is big; well that one is only 9,481 bytes, while "Miss Martian" is 68,243 bytes, (7x more). I'm sure you can see how that's different. "Nightwing" is the biggest as of now, with 88,103 bytes. These pages take longer than normal to load even on the best of browsers (I consider mine good, but it takes far longer than it should), and are too overwhelming for anyone to read it all. I would say that our target reader's attention span should be taken into account. Long pages prompt skimming, thus becoming more susceptible to unnoticed typos and grammar mistakes, all buried in long walls of text and verbose. ― Thailog 13:47, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

If we use "History of Robin in September 2010" for example there's going to obviously be some that are going to say that Robin wasn't around in September 2010 because they would for sure just think of the new Robin. Unless you want to just keep in line with how it was back then? My suggestion would be to use "Robin/history in September 2010". I guess aome people would capitalise "History" because it's a title in itself, but I also see it as a conintuation of the article's name. -- Anythingspossibleforapossible (talk) 14:42, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

I didn't mean that the "Miss Martian and Superboy" is too long I just meant that you wnat to make a point of having separate pages for history in months when we've also given separate pages for relationships only to keep a section on both of those pages which then defeats the purpose of having a separate page to begin with. How and where are we going to to direct the reader to these seperate pages? We could keep the History heading and just leave links underneath. -- Anythingspossibleforapossible (talk) 14:51, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

That's the whole point of this, make the seperate pages to remove of heavily minimise the sections on the character pages to cut down the content and therefore loadtime. though i say that Robin/History/September_2010, would work better navigation-wise then all month pages for character would be within the character's history directory instead of just the character's. (if wiki allows that sortof thing of course)Regulus₂₂ 15:02, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

I think using subpages for content is generally not a good idea. For one, from an encyclopedic point of view, you can't tell if the title is supposed to have a slash (Superman/Batman: Public Enemies) or if it's a subpage. That's why, well, basically no wiki uses this. Also, subpages are also not Google friendly. I think the simplest way is to use either "History of Aqualad in July 2010" or "Aqualad in July 2010". Under each month heading, we'd put a "Main: Link" to its respective page, and below, a succinct recap of what happened in that month. ― Thailog 16:20, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

Is it possible to make some JavaScript code which would open an in-page window of the desired sub-section? What I'm thinking of is kind of like the preview button for edits. --theJLUninja Talk to me 10:28, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

No. ― Thailog 10:34, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

Hmm. Alright that's fair enough, i just figured subpages'd be easier. So how's would something like this be implemented?Regulus₂₂ 12:58, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

Well I highly doubt a bot could move the content, so it'll all be moved by admins. Rassilon of Old ^{(Wall - Contribs)} 22:52, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

Oh yeah, no script can do that. ― Thailog 22:56, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

Alright. They still need some tweaks (a main box template on each history page at least), but this is the idea:

• Aqualad
  • Aqualad in July 2010
  • Aqualad in August 2010
  • Aqualad in September 2010
  • Aqualad in October 2010
  • Aqualad in December 2010

I didn't create a page for November 2010 because it wasn't long enough, and that should be the process. Thoughts? Suggestions? ― Thailog 11:02, August 4, 2012 (UTC)

adding <<Aqualad or something of the like to top of page perhaps, seems they sortof start abruptly.

November seems really out of place on the Aqualad page, maybe for the pages that it's decided on it has to pretty much be all or none? tho with year being decided. (ie on character such as Zatanna, even if 2010 were moved, 2016 is way too small to warrant own pages).there are more certainly smaller pages then November section and there could probably be some expansion on them now that they dont need to be entirely cut down to fit on the main page.Regulus₂₂ 11:40, August 4, 2012 (UTC)

The bios weren't "under expanded" to fit the page. It's simply unnecessary to provide long bios when we have detailed episode recaps.

By the way, are agreed that Nightwing's history pages before 2016 will be named after "Robin"? ― Thailog 11:43, August 4, 2012 (UTC)

Alright, i just assumed it was a contributing factor. Well it's keyed to time and his was the only Robin title in use at the time, i cant see why not.Regulus₂₂ 11:49, August 4, 2012 (UTC)

Also, I forgot to reiterate: each month section is supposed to have a short description of what the character did on that month. ― Thailog 13:33, August 4, 2012 (UTC)

Right that looks better then, i wasnt sure whether you'd proceed with that part because of how much this discussion was set back to the initial argument.Regulus₂₂ 14:20, August 4, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure I like the summaries - the summary of Aqualad's July adventures is not a coherent story. We don't need proseline, but chunks of irrelevant text together in one section... not nice to read. Would we have to list everything, or just vital information? For example, for Aqualad's July adventures, couldn't we just summarize the #3/#4 adventure as "an attempt at team bonding"? I'm thinking of summarizing it much along the lines of the relationship articles - general, and with an overall structure in mind. --Tupka²¹⁷ 14:42, August 4, 2012 (UTC)

That was an unfinished draft. I would actually simply summarize his adventures as "Aqualad took part in several missions, such as blah blah blah" and point out what's really relevant for the character, like him becoming team leader. So, I'm fine with using the style of relationship sections. ― Thailog 14:57, August 4, 2012 (UTC)

So, can we start doing this? ― Thailog 17:16, August 5, 2012 (UTC)

Sure. I'll start on Artemis. --Tupka²¹⁷ 17:21, August 5, 2012 (UTC)

I'll take Nightwing and Kid Flash then. ― Thailog 17:24, August 5, 2012 (UTC)

Ok, I'm not sure about Nightwing's 2016 months. They're long, but not 2010 long. Perhaps we should compile those into one page "Nightwing from January to March 2016" or leave them on his page? ― Thailog 19:56, August 5, 2012 (UTC)

Leave them on his page. I don't like inconsistent pagenames. --Tupka²¹⁷ 20:07, August 5, 2012 (UTC)

With the relationships in the morepages template, shouldnt the other relationship also be included. If it's just cause of being a draft, apologies, just thought it'd be more neutral/accurate.Regulus₂₂ 02:50, August 6, 2012 (UTC)

The other relationships don't have pages, so it's a bit pointless putting them there. ― Thailog 10:05, August 6, 2012 (UTC)

Lagoon Boy and Miss Martian, or did this fall through cracks and shouldnt have warranted a page?Regulus₂₂ 10:13, August 6, 2012 (UTC)

Ah! lol I still didn't take that "relationship" in. Yeah, I need to revise the template to accommodate more than one of those. ― Thailog 10:15, August 6, 2012 (UTC)

At the moment the main article link in the navigation boxes for Dick's pages go to Robin rather than Nightwing. Is there a way to fix that without renaming the history pages to Nightwing? -- Psypher 18:03, August 6, 2012 (UTC)

From what I've seen, that's been fixed. Thanks for the report. :) The history articles are looking great, nice job. Just wondering whether we should add images to the navigation boxes at the top of the page. It could come in handy for further differentiation between Tim and Dick's Robins, just to ensure no one goes and inserts some of Tim's history into Dick's article. Sure, the years are listed, but there'd be many first-time editors who aren't completely aware of the timeline. Also wondering whether there should be a small intro paragraph at the top of the article. I've made a mock up intro here, which was rushed, but an example of what could be included. I just feel like there needs to be some kind of lead into the history. Rassilon of Old ^{(Wall - Contribs)} 02:40, August 8, 2012 (UTC)

I like the idea of an intro paragraph. Maybe could use the ones that will eventually be added to the months sections. ― Thailog 11:23, August 8, 2012 (UTC)